The car manufacturing companies in the U.S. are coming out with hybrids and not all electric cars.
1. Do they feel that nobody would buy an all electric car? 2. Do they think the hybrid a safe way to go? 3. Is this a good way to make the transition from IC engines to electric by combining the two systems?
It would seem to me that if the car manufactures could save a lot of money by eliminating the gas/diesel engines and pass a portion of the savings on to the consumer and sell the car for less. Granted, the car companies have a large investment in tooling of the IC engine, transmission, cooling system, exhaust system, pollution controll system, etc. But, couldn’t they recover a large amount by converting their tooling to the building of batteries and electric motors? Or, is it that the oil companies, because of environmental pressure, will allow the hybrid to be built.
Remember, hybrids use oil products and the oil companies can just raise the prices at the pump and recover the same amount of big profits by selling less.
The small manufacturing companies, that are building all electric vehicles, are of very little threat to the oil companies because, these small organizations do not have the wherewithal to make cars in numbers so the price for these small amount of cars is more than the average person can afford.
THE BLOGGER LOGGER
 |
What Do You Want To Learn About? |
| How To Get A Cheap Electric Car | |
| How To Build Your Own Electric Car | |
| What The Best Electric Car Parts Are | |
| How to Get The Most Miles Out of Your Electric Car | |
| Guide to Buying one (all cars makes and models listed) | |
| Something else (leave a comment on the blog) | |
|
|
31 queries. 0.285 seconds
September 26th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Simple answer : the $40,000 “pure electric” (battery-only) Mistsubishi will cost $3,000 more than the Volt, accompliksh no more than that car in either avoiding emissions or avoiding gas, and cn’t function as a viable alternative car. Anyone who owns one HAS to own a gas powered car for those destinations over 40 miles away. Pure electrics only make sense when a practical, fast recharging battery appears. None are here yet. Get it?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Well, there was one, GM’s EV-1 car was the first viable all electric car but EXXON or some big oil company like them bought the company which owns the battery which powered the car and had all existing cars recalled and destroyed and stopped productioon of the auto battery in those cars, limiting the technology of those batteries to cellphones and small pisswilly stuff, I wonder why …..
September 30th, 2008 at 11:27 am
I think that auto manufacturers are still wary of how skeptical people still are about EVs, and they seem to want to hedge their bets thinking that people may not be ready for pure EVs yet. However, i think that people are more than ready for EVs, in fact the sooner they come out the better.
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:58 am
The car companies believe, perhaps rightly, that buyers are afraid they will have no range and no ability to “refuel” with an all electric car.
October 15th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Duh!… Either you never leave your neighborhood or you’re just plain myopic.
The biggest problems are price, range and recharging.
I only have an 18 mile round trip to work each day (which in this area - Metro Washington DC - is a short commute) - part of the trip is creeping in bumper to bumper traffic and part is in highway speeds of 65 mph (plus), but if I make just one side trip, or a trip to meet a client, which happens 4 out of 5 days each week and is rarely predictable, then I’m left standing on the side of the road with my thumb out if I’m driving an EV.
And if I want to make a trip to visit my family, I STILL need a gas vehicle to make the 90 mile trip (one way), or if I visit my inlaws, it’s 280 miles (one way).
Personally, I’m not even interested in a hybrid, let alone an EV, because they don’t perform as they are hyped and are still more expensive over the life span than an internal combustion car. I’m waiting for the fuel cell cars… till then I’ll keep driving my 10 year old 27 mpg Civic which has been paid off over 5 years ago and has just turned over 90,000 miles - it’s just getting broken in… Even if gas goes to $10 a gallon, it’s still waaaay cheaper than buying a $40,000 EV…
If somebody came out with an EV, with enough room to sit 4 adults plus briefcases and rolls of drawings, that had a range of at least 120 miles, that would recharge in 5 minutes, for less than $20,000, then I MIGHT be interested…
Get a clue… most people can’t live with the limitations of electric vehicles.
October 15th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
You’ve fallen for the myth that electric cars are impractical and too expensive. The problem with the main stream electric car companies is that they are forced to pay huge amounts for cars that just are not practical because of small economies to scale.
There are many electric cars that run over 100 miles per charge and go up to 50-60 miles per hour. Of course you will have to put some work into buying the part parts or having a professional convert a car, but it is a great alternative to the combustion engine.
October 15th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
I have not “fallen” for anything. It is no myth. If it won’t take me at least 200 miles on a charge, then it’s impractical - plain and simple. I OFTEN take a 135 mile round trip to Baltimore (from DC)in the evening right after I’ve gotten home from a roundtrip to work, along with a trip to a job site in the middle of the day. Now tell me how a 100 mile range works for me… YOU CAN’T DO IT.
And driving 50-60 mph on the beltway or I-95 will get you killed.
Like I said, if it doesn’t meet the criteria that I listed, it doesn’t even approach my needs. I can’t afford to have two cars sitting in my driveway, one gas and the other electric, one of which would be practically worthless to me. And if I can’t buy it off the lot, ready to run, then I don’t have time to deal with it, or buy the parts that you mentioned, or even plug it in every night. I don’t have time to get done what I need to do now. I certainly don’t have time to “baby” an electric vehicle, let along have one built or convert one myself, even though I probably have the skills to do so (but no garage at my house). I need a car that I can jump into, run with it, and fill up every two weeks or so.
Also, your 100 mile range doesn’t get me to New York City, or even to Baltimore and back, from DC. Therefore, it is NOT a myth that it is “impractical”. It is a FACT.
Your statement that “it is a great alternative to the combustion engine” doesn’t hold any truth for me and MOST people. It might work for the proverbial “little old lady who only drove it to church on sunday”, but it doesn’t work for most families. I don’t know what kind of world YOU live in, but most people I know drive more than 100 miles ON A REGULAR BASIS. How do you respond to that? YOU CAN’T.
A 100 mile range EV might be fine for a round trip to work and even a trip to a job site and back to the office, but that is not the only thing I use a car for.
If I can’t recharge on the road, then it means I need an additional gas vehicle, which is out of the question.
Also, I often haul large amounts of stuff (groceries, luggage, kids, cub scout den, lumber, furniture, etc, etc, etc.) in my little Civic, and it’s a struggle. Tell me how some scaled down little lunch box of a car will work for me. YOU CAN’T DO IT.
Regardless of the reasons for their cost (economy of scale as you claim), if it doesn’t operate to the same range and refueling capabilities of a conventional car, I have no use for it, although the cost is a HUGE factor for MOST people. I can’t afford a $25,000 to $30,000 car, even in anticipation of future savings in fuel. The up-front cost is too high. A hybrid MIGHT meet my needs, except they don’t perform anywhere near as efficiently on gas mileage as they would need to be to make the cost of buying a new one come close to paying for itself.
Sorry, I would like nothing better than to have an EV, but they ARE impractical and too expensive.
For the time being, EVs are practical for tooling around the golf course (which I certainly don’t have time for), trolling for fish (again, no time for that), and scooting around in the city (never really make it into the city that much), IF you have a gasoline vehicle to do your REAL driving.
October 15th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
I actually drive my converted car all around new york and it works great. I live in Queens and for my purposes it works great. I often haul parts I need for cars from the junk yard to my garage. I can travel perfectly well on express ways and on regular roads. I’m able to carry everything I need, I drive at a steady pace of about 30 on regular roads (the speed limit) and accelerate above for express ways etc… The previous summer I went out to long island to the beach which worked out well. What else do I need? Why would I need gasoline? In addition, my conversion cost about $3500, which I found acceptable.
October 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
“I actually drive my converted car all around new york and it works great. I live in Queens and for my purposes it works great.”
That’s exactly what I said. They are great for scooting around town. But the BQE or the Soutern State Pkwy is nothing like the beltway or I-95 around here. If you aren’t driving 70 mph, you are going to get rear-ended and cause an accident.
NYC driving is a completely different driving situation than the typical suburban driving. I would say that you have an ideal situation for an EV, including the fact that you have a garage to recharge your car. A LOT of people don’t. They live in apartments or townhouses and can’t run an extension cord out to charge up their cars. My workmate drives 95 miles one-way to get to the office. Granted, his commute is a bit extreme for most people, but it’s not uncommon for people around here to be driving 60 miles or more (one way) to get to their office.
You didn’t mention what your range is between charges. What would you do it you had to drive to Syracuse? How many days would it take you (that is, allowing for recharges and staying in hotels and running an extension cord out to your vehicle)? You would at least need a hybrid to make it in one day.
Until there is a way to recharge your vehicle in about the same time as it would take to fill your gas tank (and we know that’s not going to happen), then the idea of an all electric car to fit the average person’s needs is a pipe dream. That is why the car companies are building hybrids and not all-electrics. It is not because of the oil companies surpressing technology or any other type of conspiracy. (I’m not saying the oil companies don’t do that, I don’t know, I’m saying that’s not why the car companies don’t build all-electrics). The car companies are not stupid. The are going to produce vehicles that they can sell tens and hundreds of thousands of units. The only reason GM is producing the Volt is for public relations purposes, so they’ll appear to be PC. How many of those things do you think they are actually going to sell at those prices?
Again, when the range goes way up and the price comes way down, then I MIGHT be interested. It still wouldn’t serve my long distance needs though.
Now, with the range issue in mind, is there a roof top solar arrangement available that could act as sort of a trickle charger to help charge your batteries as it is sitting in a parking lot or while on the road?
December 26th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Biggest challenge facing the automakers to date is lack of money generated through the maintenance of the vehicles.
GM makes more money from parts than it does from vehicle sales. It was a very good business decision to stop producing the EV1. Not a very good decision for the general public, but a good decision for GM.. Yes they would have sold all of them.. Then what? everyone needs tires and brakes. EV’s don’t need new pistons or hoses or anything like that. Never mind the battery manufacturer being bought by standard oil.
EV’s are quite capable of long ranges. Specially with hybrids. Not the Prius rendition, but the new mini version where a generator charges the battery while under way. Ok.. Still need the fuel, but a Mini that gets 900 miles per tank of fuel with acceleration of 0 - 60 in 3 seconds? That’s my kind of car.
Eestor has started a new technology based on ultra capacitors and are touting an energy box that would power a standard EV for about 400 miles then charge up from a 440 volt station in about 15 minutes. When this tech is readily available (About a year or so) there will be no need for hybrids anymore.
January 24th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
if you want to see the electric cars check out the film “Who killed the Electric car” this is a video that i watched last fall i checked it out at Movie Gallery. it shows that in the 1990’s almost all auto mfg’s made electric cars and what happened to them
February 10th, 2009 at 1:44 am
“Now tell me how a 100 mile range works for me… YOU CAN’T DO IT.”
Maybe without the caps lock you could. I can. In fact I just got back from a 187 mile RT in my EV. Took the whole family and the dog. All our weekend gear too. All freeway miles. The big secret? When I arrived at the destination - the halfway point where I spent two nights… I charged the car! Turns out that there is electricity everywhere. It is very easy to figure out why EVs won’t work. Put a bit of effort into figuring out how they WILL work, and we’ll all be a bit better off.
February 10th, 2009 at 1:46 am
“Until there is a way to recharge your vehicle in about the same time as it would take to fill your gas tank (and we know that’s not going to happen), then the idea of an all electric car to fit the average person’s needs is a pipe dream.”
It already can and DOES happen. Fast charging has been proven and in use every day for about 15 years now. But 90% of the time it isn’t needed. The car is parked most of the time. Fast charging would be great for long-distance travel, but it isn’t needed for day-to-day driving.
March 25th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Evnut, you dompletely missed my point on both counts.
RE: the 100 mile range - I often have to drive 75 miles one way, have a quick meeting, and turn around and drive back. What am I supposed to do - go into the lobby of an office building (in the middle of the city) with my 200′ extension cord, ask if there is a plug available, and run the cord out of the front door, across the public sidewalk with thousands of people walking by, plug in my car for an hour, and hope it charges my car enough to make it home? And that’s IF I’m lucky enough to find a parking space in front of the place where I’m having my meeting. Usually I end up parking 6 blocks away. Sorry, it ain’t going to happen.
RE: quick recharging - Care to back that up? Show me where and how I’m supposed to get a quick recharge. When I’m on I-95 and the Jersey turnpike, exactly where am I supposed to plug in to get a quick recharge? And then wait 15-20 minutes for this “quick” recharge while my kids are going ballistic in the back seat because they just want to get to their cousins’ house? Maybe quick recharge isn’t needed for YOUR day-to-day driving but without it an all-electric vehicle doesn’t work for ME and lots of other people. 90% of the time isn’t good enough. What do you do the other 10% of the time? Maybe YOU have several cars in your garage (which I don’t have), one for each kind of driving you do, but most people can’t afford that kind of luxury.
Don’t get me wrong; if an EV works for you, good on ya. But for now, and the foreseeable future, I don’t see it working for MY driving situation. I would like nothing better than to own an EV that works for me, which is why I have visited this site in the first place. BUT, so far, no one has adequately answered these issues.
March 25th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
QED - I am happy that you are satisfied with the vehicle you have. I’m sorry to have taken the time to have missed your points “completely.”
As I said before, most people find it much easier to stick with the status quo, and find nothing but misery at the idea of making something new work for them.
You have asked more questions in your latest post, but I am electing to acknowledge them without replying as I don’t wish to risk missing your point again. From what I gather, your main point is that EVs won’t work.
http://evnut.com/docs/evs-wont_work.doc
March 25th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Your sarcastic attitude does nothing to further your positions. I am honestly looking for answers to my questions and you are just lashing out with cynical remarks. People like you do more to harm the future possibilities of EVs than to promote them. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I would really like to know how I could make an EV work for ME…NOW. Not in some as-yet unrealized future. And sorry, but yes, you missed my point again.
“From what I gather, your main point is that EVs won’t work.” Absolutely not… I never said anything of the sort. What I said, or maybe ‘tried’ to say, is that EVs won’t work for MY driving situation, and that I don’t believe they will work for many people. Yes, there are many different uses for a vehicle and many different types of vehicles to fill those needs. EVs WILL fill SOME of the needs of many people. But they won’t fill all or most of the needs of many people.
But they won’t work for me, at least as far as I know and not right now. My Civic won’t fill 100% of my needs either. I certainly can’t haul a sofa in it. At those times, I go rent a truck or a van. But it fills MOST of my requirements MOST of the time. I only need a bigger vehicle about 1/100th of 1% of my driving trips. Most of my driving calls for convenience, average comfort, speed, affordability, and, fairly often, long range. That’s all I’m asking of an EV… It has yet to be demonstrated to me that any available EV meets all of those requirements.
From your previous link: “In my personal situation, my last EV cost me $32,000. I also spent about $10,000 on my solar electric system. For my $42,000, I not only purchased a fantastic brand new car that is practical for 90% of my family’s driving – I also purchased all the fuel for a lifetime of driving it.”
If YOU want to be the one to go out and spend your money to change the world, then bless you. I have no desire to be a pioneer, although I have no problem being in the cutting edge. I personally am not able to spend $32,000 on a car, let alone the extra $10k for the solar. I don’t think I am alone in this… I would still need another vehicle that would be capable of longer ranges. I could barely afford the $12,000 Civic I bought over 10 years ago. I spend less than $1000 a year on gas for that car. At those rates it would take me 30 years of driving your EV to pay off the upfront costs over keeping my civic.
Plus you said it works for 90% of your driving. You never answered the question of what you do for the other 10%. I would REALLY like to hear the answer to that. How do you handle long distance trips?
At least once a month, I end up driving 280 miles one way without having to stop for gas. If an EV can’t do that, then it doesn’t work for me. If I can refuel in 5-10 minutes once during the trip, then fair enough.
Trust me, I’m not trying to poo-poo the idea of EVs… I want one. But until these problems are resolved, I can’t and won’t have one.
My time is MUCH more valuable to me than worrying about a car. My Civic takes me about 5 minutes every 1-1/2 to 2 weeks to fill up… plus occasional maintenance every few of months when I drop it off at the shop across the street from my office. Until an EV becomes just as convenient, frankly, I’m not interested. If I only had to install some power cord reels near my driveway, and the car costs less than $20k, AND I could charge it on the highway in 5 minutes, and it had a range of AT LEAST 200 miles, preferable 275-300, then I would be all over it.
You also said that you think apartment owners should be required to provide recharging stations for their tenants. Apartment owners will do that for which there is a demand. they have started providing high speed internet because there was a demand. But that still doesn’t answer the question of how people who live in townhouses or apartments in the middle of the city would charge their vehicles.
Maybe 20 years from now, metered recharging stations will be common along streets and at stations along the freeway. But they aren’t right now. That’s why car companies aren’t making EVs. The infrastructure is not in place and therefore the possibility to profitably mass produce EVs is not here.
Again, I’m looking for a real answer here, but nobody seems to be able to provide it.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
QED - Nothing I said was sarcastic.
I have somewhat extensive EV driving/owning experience, and I am happy to share that experience with a receptive audience. I have heard all the reasons why EVs won’t work for everybody - and have listed many of them in the linked document. I’m happy to help clear some things up, but not when I’m up against a wall of negativity. You say you are open to answers and that I am being negative - yet you seem to have it all figured out and demand the perfect answers from others.
I further the “cause” by driving an EV and demonstrating how it absolutely does and can work for some “regular” people such as myself. As you point out, no car is perfect for everybody all the time. And it is the same with EVs. They’ll work great for some folks, and not so great for others.
Really, the story can end there.
If you are happy with your gas car and money is your main concern, then there’s no reason for you to change anything. So why worry about it?
March 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Sorry, I missed this, and will be happy to answer.
“Plus you said it works for 90% of your driving. You never answered the question of what you do for the other 10%. I would REALLY like to hear the answer to that. How do you handle long distance trips?”
We drive our Prius. Like millions of households in the USA, we have two cars. One is a full EV that is driven seven days per week. The other is a Prius that is driven two or three times per month when we both need a car, or when we go on a longer trip.
And yes, I’ve already heard that you cannot/will not own two cars. I’m just answering how we do it. My neighbors have two SUVs for the same tasks that we use an EV and a Prius.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Sorry. I can’t help myself. You accuse me of lashing out - and you do this after writing these little nuggets of positivity (by the way, THIS post is my first sarcastic post). Can you read these objectively and see if it sounds like you really want answers? Or does it sound like you already know all the answers and anything we say is wrong?:
“Duh!… Either you never leave your neighborhood or you’re just plain myopic.”
“Get a clue… most people can’t live with the limitations of electric vehicles.”
“How do you respond to that? YOU CAN’T.”
“Now tell me how a 100 mile range works for me… YOU CAN’T DO IT.”
“the idea of an all electric car to fit the average person’s needs is a pipe dream.”
If you truly want answers, back off. Ask questions. Be pleasant. Invite people to discuss it - don’t shut them down with this kind of crap.
March 25th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Honestly, I don’t think those answers are possible. I’m not being negative, I’m being realistic. I still haven’t heard the answers to those questions which is why I said you (the general ‘you’, not you EVnut in particular) can’t do it.
No one has answered any of those questions.
That’s my point. That’s why it’s a “duh”. That’s why car companies don’t build them, because there’s no way to make them work today.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be working toward that. I’m all for it. But so many EV enthusiasts lament the fact that the car companies aren’t making all electric cars. Well that’s the reason… because they DON’T work for the average driver. Maybe in their world it works for them, but even you (EVNUT) said you have to use a hybrid to go long distances. Maybe, just because they don’t need it, they can’t see that MOST people DO need a car that can go further than 100 miles on a single charge (at least in this country). We live in and by our cars.
Here’s another question: What happens when you come out in the morning and discover that you forgot to plug in your car the night before because you were thinking about something else, or you were in a big hurry, or whatever? I know, quick recharge will handle it in 5 minutes IF you have 480 volts at your house… which no one has.
Please show me a car that can go at least 200 miles on a single charge, can recharge in 5-10 minutes (and tell me WHERE or HOW I can recharge it on most highways or in any town or city) has AC & heat, can carry 4 adults, and costs $20k or less & I will go buy one tomorrow.
Or show me a place or person where I can take my old civic and get it converted, reliably, to an electric with quick-charge technology, for a few grand, and tell me how I can recharge it on long trips, conveniently and I will gladly do it.
The truth, I suspect, is that you can’t.
I’m not a tree-hugger or a greenie, but I’m all for keeping our air and water clean. I’m also all about saving money as long as it doesn’t mean major inconveniency.
If you could point me to a way, that would be great. I don’t even know where to start, but obviously, it sure isn’t with my car dealer.
April 23rd, 2010 at 4:26 am
You made some good points there. I did a search on the topic and found most people will agree with your blog.